How to Help Someone See Something They Can't See Yet

A New Greeting And Big Topic

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What is going on, my people? What? My people?

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I thought you thought you were gonna say something different today.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

No. No. Lisa, one of our coaches and one of our listeners, um, she recommended that we change it up. And just you say, Hi, friends. I don't know. She says you're a very um uh like connected and supportive person. It's like she knows you. What do you think of that? Okay. Okay. Well then let's do it. Hi, friends. There we go. There we go. All right, guys. So today we have another powerful episode. It's one that is kind of really near and dear to our hearts. And actually, before this episode, we were going back and forth of like, should we do this now? Should we do this a little bit later? Just because of the depth that we want to talk about. So, this whole idea is like how to help somebody see something when they can't see it. And here's what I mean is like, so last week we talked about I was coaching somebody who wanted to be a better husband, and I was asking him questions, it became very clear to me that he had this whole perspective that basically was like, if I ask my wife to do something and she does it my way, then that is amazing. But if she does it her way, then I'm gonna get angry that maybe she doesn't love me, or maybe she doesn't hear me or see me, or all of these kind of like stories that we make things mean. And when that first came up, I see this happen a lot. It doesn't happen so much for me anymore because I've had to practice this out of me, is that we tend to see things, right? Whether it's with our kids, our clients, people that we're leading, we're like, oh, if we could just connect the dots between hear it here, you'd be able to see it and like everything would be changed. We call this a version of mentoring where we're telling people what to do. And when we see things, what? For how to think. And how to think, yes. Which is also like why there's a pushback there, right? Because our belief system is built the way it is for a reason. It's meant to protect itself too. And anytime you go against that belief without allowing them to kind of like verbalize it out loud, and it's your thought, it's generally gonna throw up like a little protection mechanism. But here's the thing when you do that, it almost never works. So today, I want to talk about what to do instead that actually does. So you're listening to Moderate Leadership

Why Advice Triggers Pushback

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Coaching. I'm Mark.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And I'm Teresa.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

This is where we talk about what it actually takes to lead people well. So going back to this whole idea of the topic is there's a moment where we genuinely want to help someone, right? And I know that people who are listening to this podcast, they genuinely want to help people. They want to help people they're leading, they want to help their kids, they want to help their spouse, they want to, and when they do that, they maybe get curious in the beginning. But that curiosity stays only until they spot something where they can give some advice or direction or the sneaky way. We see this happen with some of our coaches, and we like we have to correct them on it, is they ask them a question that guides them to the path that they want them to see. And when you do that, unfortunately, it doesn't usually land the way that you want to. And it's more of like they're telling me what to do versus I came to this conclusion myself. We've seen it in some of the episodes where we talked about our kids asking them questions and them coming up with solutions which were better than anything we would ever have come up with on our own.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

By the way, they are super good at spotting this. They get super defensive if you like, especially with the questions, like the leading questions. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Big time. Yeah. Big time, big time. So, so doing your homework, like, what do you think would be the positive benefits of you doing your homework today, sitting down and like just getting it done at once? And they're like, stop it. But we accidentally do that because we're like, oh, we see these solutions and I want to be able to point it out. So that's why we wanted to put this together

Check If They Are Coachable

SPEAKER_00 3:35

today.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

So before you do anything, like when you're sitting down in a coaching session, or you know, it could even be in any situation where you're talking to someone, they're kind of expressing what they're going through, like you actually check something. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yes. So this is something that I don't realize. I do it a lot with people and it determines how I show up in that scenario. So some people call this is the person coachable? Are they willing to have this conversation? Do they want to change? Or do they want somebody who just listens to them? Do they want somebody who just commiserates with them? I don't do that so well anymore. But like, do they want somebody to empathize with them? And you can kind of spot that not only with their language, but also some of the answers that they give you to the questions. And so for me, one of my main things is as I'm starting to have a conversation with somebody, I know whether they're open to hearing something or not. And so that that's like a big indicator for me is like, is this person coachable? Are they going to be able to take some of the things that I say? Because if not, I do not force it. I don't force it. And by the way, there are times that I even ask them, I'm like, hey, you just share this. I think I can really help you. Are you willing for me to go down that path? Because it actually might bring up some stuff. I can hear that there's maybe a little anger, a little frustration, and I want to give you back your power, but it might not feel amazing while we do it, but I'm willing to do that if you are, right? Or especially if like somebody gets emotional, I'll be like, is it okay if we go down that path? Because I think it's very important to you, which means it's very important to me, but I don't want to force it either. And sometimes they say yes, and sometimes they say no, and I honor whatever it is that they say. But like that's the first thing that I check. Is this person coachable? Is this subject too touchy for them? Um, do we need to start somewhere else? Because I'm all in with whatever. Like as their coach, and I I don't just mean it in a session. I mean like as a leader, as somebody like wanting to help this person achieve whatever it is that they want to achieve. I'm all in with whatever that is for them. I don't have a specific path that they need to follow. I'm like, what can I help you with today? Like that's what I'm gonna like go all in and help you with, whether it's the kids, whether it's you, whether it's like in my career in LAPD, like it's being able to meet people where they're at, but knowing when they're coachable and when they're not is really critical because you don't want to force it.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's really important because I I know some people might say, Well, it, you know, it's important, so I need to, I need to say it. And that's not always the case. Like maybe there's a time and place, right? And you can kind of figure that out. And I think it's a really great skill to have to be able to stop yourself from saying something that maybe might not be the best thing to say. Or, you know, like you said, even like asking for permission, like saying, Hey, you know, I I see something. Can I share this with you? And I think that's really key.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yep, indeed.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And um, you know, kind of thinking back to like the example that you gave of the the guy who um, you know, was talking about his wife. There are obviously a lot of coaching sessions that we've done where there's always talk about another person. Yeah. Right. And, you know, we work with couples and they'll talk about their spouse and things like that. So you have this line about this that you say you can't coach someone who's not in

You Cannot Coach Absent People

SPEAKER_02 6:48

the room. Correct. So let's speak more about that.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah. So certain of my clients will want to speak about somebody else and how to change somebody else, how to impact other people and whatnot. And there's certain conversations that I can speak to them about as long as it's dealing with them and how they're showing up. But anytime it resorts to this other person or the person who's not in the room, I am very specific. You cannot coach somebody who's not in the room. But what this also does is it makes you focus on the things that your client can control. So if, like, let's say my kid is bringing something to us about his teacher, I can't talk to him about the changes his teacher needs to make. That is going to be a waste of time and energy. He's going to get frustrated. I'm going to get frustrated and I don't go down that path.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, it's like unrealistic expectations that you're in.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, yeah. Like because there's another person and they're not even not even having this conversation. I think about this a lot, by the way. Like a lot of the times when we think about like our perspectives and the stories that we tell ourselves, we think that talking about quote unquote another person is going to help. It is a pure waste of time. They are not here, they're not listening. And anything that you think about them is not going to hurt them. It's only going to hurt you. So, in this scenario, like in all the scenarios, when I find that the other person wants me to coach somebody who's not in the room, I refuse to do that because it's a waste of all of our time and all of our energy. So I will shift the focus back to them, how they're showing up, because those are the things they can't control.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah. And by coaching someone who's not in the room, it means that you're not going to say, like you said, oh, this is what this person needs to do. Yeah. You're also kind of getting just one side of the story as well. And the only thing that you can guide someone with is what they're telling you and what they have responsibility uh for and what they have control over.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

So let's say you're you're in a session and you can see something, right? You can see something that you feel would be really good to share and you're gonna do it. Like, what is it that you actually do? I know there was something that you mentioned about like saying, hey, presenting it to them before you actually talk to them about it to see if they're willing to be coached through it. But in the scenario that you're gonna move forward and do this, like what do you actually do?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah.

Questions That Create Real Insight

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So I typically like to ask them questions to help them try to surface it themselves. And uh sometimes it can be as simple as like, well, okay, you said this, that's kind of important. Tell me a little bit more about that. And it just gets them to explore it a little bit, right? But if they, if they don't really get it, I'm not just gonna keep asking them random questions to get them to explore it. I'll ask it more succinctly. I've been on a lot with people who are getting into coaching and they're like, hey, I want to be able to expand and grow my business. And when I have conversations with them, a lot of them are forcing things that are not working and not ever going to work, but they keep forcing it because that's the advice that they're getting from other people, or maybe they're like dead set on this is the solution for me, and they're not open to like outside solutions. And so for me, I don't want to necessarily guide them to one specific solution, but I can ask them a question to get them thinking in a different way. So, for example, the question that I've been using a lot with people who would jump it on calls with me is like, based off of like your strength zone, what is a way that you could meet new people, tell them you're a coach, ask them if they want your help outside of the way that you're currently doing it. And so what it does is it offers them now different ideas and strategies that they could utilize. And when I talk to a lot of coaches, especially nowadays, like social media is great. And if that's your strength zone and you you thrive in that environment, I say go all in. But if it's not working for you, it's just telling you that social media is just not your avenue. It doesn't mean you're not a good coach. It doesn't mean you're not good at business. It's just this is not your jam. Like, let's think about what your strength zone is that's gonna be able to get you to lean in and help more people, right? And so it's it's something similar to that where I just ask a question to explore something and then people can come to those conclusions. Cause I never jump on a call going, hey, social media is dead. Like social media isn't gonna work, right? It's it's knowing that um I understand some of the principles of social media that actually apply in anything, that apply to live events, apply to going at meetups and greetups, going in person. Like it's the same universal principles. They just can't see beyond that. And so how I get them to see it is just by asking them a question like that. And then they start exploring it. And when they explore it and they land on it, it's not me telling them what to do. It's they get to an end of a session. And I had this last week. They're like, I have never thought about it that way. And what was so amazing is like after this, she sent me a message. She went back to something that was really working well for her. I could feel the energy change that she had after she had this coaching session. And I didn't tell her any of that. It was just merely me exploring and asking those questions to help her like bring it up.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah. And I have a kind of a follow-up question to that. So let's say you do present this information that you can see to someone and it it doesn't quite land. I know that, you know, you've done this so many times that it's not you haven't had a 100% success rate, right? Like there's been times when people have gotten defensive. So, like, how do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

One of the things that I do always say when I'm talking to my clients is I get them to try it on for size because there's no one right, best only way to do things. And I make sure that I'm very clear on that. But just exploring with us having conversations doesn't mean they have to do it. It just means we're exploring a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah, I think many times it comes up when like couples where you're coaching that one person and they're blaming a lot of things on their spouse or you know, their partner. And you you can see that there are some areas where they can be a little bit more self-reflective. And then you kind of present that. Not saying it this way, obviously, but like, hey, maybe you're the problem, right? But how would you approach

The Growth Model For Accountability

SPEAKER_02 12:46

that?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Okay, thank you for that question. It is beautiful and amazing because I have the answer. It's called the growth model. Here's the thing like we teach this philosophy inside of the High Impact Master Academy, it's called the growth model. And what the growth model is, is it gets people to see what it is that they're actually creating in their life based off of the perspectives and stories that they're telling themselves. And so when you are having a conversation with somebody, and this is why we we it's seven months to teach people and train them and to get them to practice and get feedback on using the growth model. But when you use it, it's not you saying those things. If you look at the growth model and how we teach it, it is them saying how they're what they're actually creating in their life. So when you're going through it and using a tool like that and you're using your client's words, it's literally like them saying that this is what this is creating. It's not you putting words in their mouth. So, like, kind of like how I was talking about earlier of like asking questions and figuring out like what's going on, the growth model does that, but it does it in like what's going on underneath the surface. And so when you go through that path and you show them, it's not me saying, Well, guess what? This is what's you're creating. It's like, do you see how what you told me is that this is actually creating this? And that's where you get those connection pieces. They're like, oh my gosh, I never even realized this.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

So you kind of soften the blow a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

You you do because it's a it's a tool rather than you saying it. Because there's a difference, right? And by the way, like if I have a buddy or somebody that like I've been coaching for a very long time, they're okay if I tell them stuff. Like sometimes it's like, do you see this? Like I just want to, and by the way, did you notice I just have as a question? Yeah. Can you do you see that? Yeah. Like I just want to like point that out, right? And then they can say, I see that and I agree, or I see that and I don't agree. And I'm totally fine to have a conversation. I just like I point it out that way. But it's like, I wouldn't necessarily say that to a new client that I don't really 100% like know about. Right. But using the growth model, for example, it allows me to walk them through it and get them to see what they're actually creating. It's the reason why we do it inside of our self-leadership lab, it's the reason why we have it in the high impact mastery academy, is because it's a tool that helps you see what you're doing to yourself. That's really what it is. And it gives you your power back because we have the other side of the growth model, which is the conscious side, because there's the left side, which is the unconscious, which means it happens automatically and you don't know it's actually happening. And it's so powerful. Like, like the guy that I was talking to you about, like being able to show him what his thoughts were actually creating for him, what his perspectives were creating for him, got him to go, wow. Like, and and here's this thing at the end. He's like, maybe my wife does need to work on some stuff, but I definitely need to work on some stuff. And I don't know, that feels that. That yeah, that seems way more productive to me than like my wife is the problem and she's not doing it right. And so being able to show them that way without like, let's just say asking a million questions, actually having some type of path to be able to take them down is really powerful because now you can point to that as opposed to pointing to you. And it's not just because you want to shift the quote unquote blame, it's because you actually want them to see what's actually going on. And can I go in a little deeper than that? Yeah. Okay. So one of the processes after we teach the growth model is getting people to understand the consequences of continuing to go down that path of the growth model. So we ask three questions, okay? And and one of the questions I'm going to bring up today, the others take a little bit more of a deeper dive. You have to really understand the growth model before. But when you look at the growth model and you see the way that your brain is thinking, the thoughts that it's offering you, the main job of your brain is to keep you safe and to automate things, right? So those two things are simultaneous. Well, when you see that that thought is actually supposed to be there because it's supposed to protect you, now you actually can take your power back because you're like, wow, my brain was convincing me I don't have the time for this. When in reality, it was just protecting me from the work that would have to happen if I made the time. You look at it way different. And now what you do is you kind of like chip away at some of maybe the stories you told yourself or perspectives that you tell yourself, and you go, well, maybe that's not 100% true. And when you do that, then you can get to the real truth of the matter and you can start to see, oh, my brain is supposed to do this and keep me safe, but I'm not in a situation that I need to be kept safe right now. So I appreciate you, but I'm not going to keep going down that path. And then you can find a different path that will get you to show up differently, but it's more focused on like the stories that you tell yourself.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

You talked about like the questions that you kind of go into. So what are those questions?

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah. So, so three questions. Two of them a little bit too in-depth to go here

Ask How A Thought Benefits You

SPEAKER_00 17:14

in a podcast. We'd have to have a one for every single one of those questions. But the one question is like, um, how does thinking that benefit you? Like, how does thinking that benefit you? Like, because the the truth is, is when you think about like how that thought of like, I don't have time, for example. Let's use that. It's super simple, right? Um, how does that benefit you? Well, because you don't have to make the time. You don't have to, if you made the time, you might actually have to talk to some people and ask them if they wanted to join you, right? Or you might have to have that conversation with your kid that you're like so afraid or petrified of like what their answer are gonna be. There's like things that are happening in your life and it's a personal thing where it's actually protecting you from having to do those activities, those uncomfortable, the I don't know what's gonna happen as a result of it. And when you realize that that's what your brain's doing, you can kind of like give it a little bit of grace instead of beating yourself up going, why are you doing this? Why are you thinking this? Why are you like working against me? It's not. It loves you, it wants to keep you safe, it just doesn't realize this is in a life or death situation anymore. Right. So, so being able to see that kind of takes you out

Stay On Their Side While Challenging

SPEAKER_00 18:08

of that space.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So, why do you think it matters so much whether that we form this into a question versus a statement?

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, and I I think I kind of um talked about this earlier where it's like it does kind of soften the blow. And you were talking specifically about the growth model, but it's when you're asking a question, it allows someone to come up with something in their brain, right? It allows them to think differently. And we talk about this a lot, right? Like kind of like challenging their perspective in a sense, but it allows them to come up and have buy-in on, you know, what they're gonna answer, right? So rather than me saying, Well, you know, I think you should do this, which is, you know, mentoring or hey, I I I spot this, I think this is what's going on, it still feels like you're out of control because someone else is telling you something. But when someone asks you a question and gets you to reflect on that situation, and then you start to do a little bit of rewiring and thinking about things a little bit differently. And like I said, you you kind of have more buy-in to the situation, and it kind of feels like you came up with a solution because you really did, yeah, right. Nobody was telling you what to do. You came up with that because the answers are are within you. So that's kind of the benefits of asking questions rather than giving statements.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah, and usually they'll stay more consistent with it too.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yep. Indeed, indeed.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah. So we talked about what you do once once people kind of realize just let them sit with it and I don't argue against whether whether they agree with me or not.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

I just like um I don't want to put any labels on them or anything like that. I just ask them some follow-up questions and we just get curious about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah. Like you don't beat it out of them, right? Or like you don't prolong the potential pain that it could have on that person mentally, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yep, yep, yep. And and there is one more thing I do. I want to make sure we get this in before we land the episode. And that is like when you're going through these levels of conversations with people, one of the things that I always remember is I make sure that my client knows that I'm on their side. Like I want what's best for them. It often means that I don't agree with their perspective per se, because whatever their perspective is in the moment is creating something for them. But I do believe in their potential. I do know that their brain is working the way that it's supposed to. I do want to remove any shame, guilt, or blame or from anything that they have going on, but I want them to see this as a collaborative effort. I'm not saying these things because I think I'm better than them or that I I've never struggled through things before, but like I'm actually on their side. I want them to actually feel that. And you can be on somebody's side and also bring up things that are a little bit uncomfortable. Because if you were really on their side, you would, right? And whether it's you asking those questions or going down these kind of like paths. But I said it in the beginning, and that's like sometimes you want to ask for permission. So when there's certain areas where you know it's a little bit like a touchy subject with this client, like asking for permission because you know it's going to help them, but also because you know it might be a little bit uncomfortable and you want to see if they're willing to do it. That's an important part of the puzzle. And if they say yes and you go down that path, I would make sure that you acknowledge and appreciate them for being willing to go down that path. Because it's not just like you poking at them the whole time. It is like, I am here on your side and we're gonna work through this because I believe in you. I know you can get through this, I know you're gonna become stronger because of it. And I know that your brain is working the way that it's supposed to. But in reality, it's not gonna help you get what you want. And I want to help you get what you want. And so I'm going to be willing to ask the questions, to go down the paths that you feel okay to go and going down. I'm not gonna force anything, but I'm gonna be here to go down whatever path that is. If you're agreeing with your client all the time, I really don't even think you're on their side. You're just trying to make yourself feel comfortable. And so you got to really make sure that you're not in the pool in that scenario. But if you're really trying to help your client and you're on their side, you're going to be willing to have these conversations to bring up some of these questions and be able to bring it out.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

So here's kind of what we want you all to kind of take away from this is when you can see something someone else can't, the temptation is to kind of hand it to them. Just give them the answer because you care and you want them to have it. But people rarely change when you spot it. They change when they discover it themselves. They have that buy-in now. With someone standing next to them who clearly believes in them, you're their their support person and they'll feel that and they'll feel like they have that control. So instead of telling someone, you ask and you make sure they know the whole time that you are on their side, like you said. And it's not a technique, it's just what it looks like when you want good things for someone.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yes. And we know everybody who's listening wants good things for someone. We don't get into this line of work where it comes to leading and coaching and asking questions if we don't actually want what's best for the other person. And always keeping that as like your North Star is such an important part of the equation and something we're going to keep reminding you because you're here for that reason. That's why you're here. You're signed up to like develop a skill. We know we have some people in Hima that's gonna be starting in September who are like, I'm all in at doing whatever I can to become better so I can help other people. And yes, this is a skill, but in reality, when you think about the why behind it and your heart and how you want to help people, that's what really matters most.

Key Takeaways And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So I'm gonna share two links with you guys today. If part of this episode hit and you're looking for ways to really get deep into coaching and leading others, you want to be more effective at it. You want to make sure that you know what's going on under the surface and how to ask these questions, when to ask questions and when not to, that's what we teach inside of the High Impact Mastery Academy. So if you go to modernleadership.us forward slash certification, there's a wait list there. If you sign up, I'll reach out, share the details. Um, we start in the beginning of September. Okay. The beginning of September is the next round. The second link is if you're not interested in being able to help other people and you're more interested in I want to be able to lead myself more effectively, we actually have a five short podcast series that if you go to modernleadership.us forward slash lead, uh you can sign up. It's completely free. It has five, maybe 10, 15 minute episodes that talks about you continuing to lead from the front, which is what it's all about here, right? When you lead yourself effectively, you earn the right to lead others. And that's what this is all about. Thank you guys. Uh, appreciate you for making it here to the end. By the way, if you have not let a rating and review, we would love that. Sent out an email last week about that, and I had a few people go in. And it always feels amazing to be able to read those. So we want to thank you for listening and providing feedback. And if there's anything that you would like us to cover on this podcast, just reach out underneath your podcast app so that you can send us a message and we'll take it from there. So thank you guys. Appreciate you. Have a great week, and we'll see you guys next week. Bye, everybody.