How to Break the Pattern You've Been Trying to Fix for Years

Why Effort Still Feels Stuck

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you've read the books, you sat with coaches, you've done the programs, you're not someone who avoids the work. You actually run towards it. But somehow you keep ending up in the same place. That's a specific kind of frustration that most people don't even talk about. Because from the outside, everything looks fine. You're growing, you're trying, but underneath the same pattern keeps showing up. Today we're talking about why effort applied to the wrong level of the problem never fixes it. And why I can't talk to Bay. That was weird. And what changes when you finally find the right level? So you're listening to the Modern Leadership Coaching Podcast. Hi Mark.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

It looked like you were about to forget what her name was. And I'm Teresa.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Really? You are? And this is where we talk about what it actually takes to lead people well. So welcome back. First off, it's amazing to get you to make fun of me all the time. Because I feel like I was kind of veered when I was by myself. Because you can't make fun of yourself. You do can, but it doesn't work well, right? So today we're talking about something that was actually inspired by some frustration that happened in me recently.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Very recently, right? Because guess what? I got a human brain and it works like that. So today's episode is really for the person who has done everything and is still like hitting the same wall over and over and over again. And I say the word frustration, that's what comes up for me because anytime that I've hit this wall and I've hit it lots of times, the initial feeling is frustration. Like I'm not the type of person who is not going to go in and take action and keep changing that action and trying to figure it out, right? I'm actually the opposite where I probably do too much, change it too often. But when you are like trying to tackle this problem and you've tried to tackle it a hundred different ways, it can feel super frustrating. Right. And to be honest, like because we teach this, I want to let people know that we are not immune to this, but we catch ourselves much quicker and we can actually get to the root of what's actually going on and being able to create that breakthrough. Right. And I really think like a the huge part of this process is I just signed up for a new coach program, right? I have a mentor that I've been listening to on a podcast for a very long time. She's a very powerful master coach. And I always like to be in the room to like learn other people's philosophies and really get to hear their take on things. One of the things that she talks about, she talks about this idea of called failure gold. And that is like when you experience failure, but you reflect on it, you learn from it, and you take that into the next step. That's really what failure gold is. And when you think about like the people that you want to get the help from, yes, some people have really great frameworks and ways of coaching and things like that. But somebody who's actually been through the pain that you've gone through, there's just something about that, right? And they've gotten through the other side. Um, and it helps with the belief, believe it or not, from that person. Cause you're like, this person has gotten through it. So they're going to be able to help guide me through it. And the chances of them being able to do that are extremely high because they've gone through it themselves, right? But the issue that I see people running into right now is they keep trying things over and over and over again and they're actually not learning the lesson, even though they think they are. They're like, this way is not working. So let me try this new way of doing things. And what they think is that they're actually learning and growing from it, but they're trying to fix the wrong problem, right? They're trying to fix the wrong problem. I know when you have a problem with your car, right? And um you think it's one problem and you keep fixing that and replacing it over and over and over again, it's not going to be fixed. And this is the same thing, however, we're gonna learn today why we um don't even realize this is the case. And also why somebody, a lot of times from the outside, can spot those things much quicker than the things on the inside.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Yeah, yeah. So I have a question for you. So when when someone comes to you and they said they have done everything, right? So they've done therapy, they've done coaching, books, programs, and they're still stuck. What do you notice first from that?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So usually what I do is I notice the frustration and I'm listening for like certain cues. And when they say they have done everything, I listen to that. What have you done? What have you tried? What's worked? All those kind of things, right? And any time that somebody says everybody or nothing or always, never. Yes, the always or never, it is never, always or never. It's never right then. Yeah, yeah. So in a situation like this, like some people will come to

Asking Better Questions To Find Roots

SPEAKER_00 4:24

us and they will think that their problem is the same as other people's. And what I notice first is when I start asking questions and I help actually figure out what's going on, it's different for everybody. I was coaching one of our clients yesterday. And one of the things that we tend to do as marketers is we try to put out a message that as many people can communicate with as possible, right? Saying, hey, this is the specific problem that you're dealing with, and here's a solution. The truth is, and this is why I I don't want to use the term hate marketing, but why I dislike it, is because it's not a one size fit all anything. The best advice that I could give somebody is to find someone who knows how to ask questions to figure out what their problem is, not what we're trying to portray in terms of marketing all over the internet. And so when I think about this, uh, the reason why I'm saying this is because there isn't one thing that I look for. I ask questions and I get curious because I want to find out what's actually going on. Because sometimes you talk to somebody who's quote unquote done everything and they haven't. They've tried one thing and they've tried it for a week and a half, and you're like, okay, so let's talk about this a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

But sometimes you talk to somebody and they have tried a million different ways of solving this problem. But the thing is, is it's not a technical problem. Yeah. Like what they're doing is not the problem per se. It could be the energy that they have behind it. It could be their unwillingness to make a change or an adjustment to it, right? Because this is the way that it's always been done, right? Like, I mean, all of these basically their belief system could prevent them from first off doing the right thing, but second off, doing the right thing with the right energy. So what I first notice is I first notice like the words that they're saying, how they're feeling, and I get to the root of what's actually going on. And I always say nine times out of 10, it starts with an adaptive problem, which is like the way that they're thinking, the way they're approaching it, their unwillingness to think outside the box, unwillingness to be creative, right? And then it leads to a technical problem that we still do have. Then I can help them when it comes to like being able to fix that too. But it's usually not just a technical problem. Even if they think they have just a technical problem, very infrequently do I actually see that they actually have only a technical problem. They could have Googled that. They could have done an AI search, right? And they would have been able to find that out. So sorry for the long way of answering this question, but it's really like I noticed how they're feeling, but then I asked them questions to help get to the root of it. It's not random questions. Okay. By the way, um, at the end of this, remind me to talk to you about um, we have a quiz. It's modernleadership.us forward slash quiz. There's a quiz that we have there for people who feel like they're stuck. Even if you don't take it, okay, I want you to look at those questions. Those questions are built that way for a reason. That is the thing that I go through naturally when I ask questions. And somebody's asked me that before. I'm like, how do you get to like with the root of actually what's going on? And I'm like, well, I ask a bunch of questions. They're like, what questions? And so I put together a quiz because number one, I want to help people who are actually stuck, because that's what we do, right? But also I want coaches out there to be like, hey, I'm gonna help my client who's stuck. Go there, grab those questions, swipe it, use it. I want people to use anything that we have created so that they can help their clients. But those are the questions that I typically would ask.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah, and the thing that I've noticed, and this is probably because people are used to getting mentored more than getting coached, is that they'll come to you or they'll come to us and say that I they have done everything, right? They have, you know, done the things, the done the strategic things, the technical things, right? But they never come to us and say, you know what, I think I'm approaching this wrong. Because that's not where our brain goes. That's not where advice comes from either. Because if they've come to other people with the same problem, they've said, Oh, well, have you tried this? Oh, you probably haven't tried this, right? So it's the constant focus on doing the things rather than approaching it from a different perspective. Yeah. Right. So, like we're talking about patterns, right? So this is a pattern with people, with all of us, right? We're not immune to it. We just like said at the beginning of the episode, is that we think about things from an outside perspective because it's tangible. We can see it, we can feel it, we can analyze it. But when it comes to our brain, that's a lot harder. And, you know, we aren't always equipped to acknowledging that and knowing that. So we lead with I'm doing all the things and the thing is happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Right. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

All right. So I have another question for you. So why does this pattern survive every attempt to fix it? I mean, we just kind of talked about it, right? Because these aren't people who are avoiding the work. Like we're talking about people who are taking the actions, they're doing quote unquote everything they're supposed to do. Yeah. So why do you think this pattern keeps just surviving this?

Technical Fixes Versus Adaptive Problems

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah. So the simple answer to this is our beliefs, 97% of them are subconscious, right? They're unconscious. They're beliefs and thoughts that we don't even think of in our mind. And because they are subconscious, they will do things to keep us stuck and we will never know they're doing them. And this is not one of those things you can think yourself out of the box. There's going to be some scenarios that you can walk yourself through and coach yourself through, but a majority of the ones that are stuck, you don't even know why you're stuck. And that's I why I think the most frustrating part, and we'll talk about this in a few minutes, is like when you don't even realize what's holding you back, but you're trying everything to fix it and nothing is working. Very easy to go down the path of I'm not good enough. Why am I doing this? I suck. Who am I to do this?

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Yeah, why do you think that is? Why do you think people go towards that?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Oh, because that's easy. That's safe. Yeah. If I can quit coaching, I don't have to worry about it. If I quit leading, I don't have to worry about this ever again. And it's like whatever my brain can offer me to quit. Yeah. I mean, and this is the thing, like 95% of people will quit. And I don't hate on them. It's just like they let their brain win. And it's just one of those things where your brain is meant to do that. So it's only natural for most people to do that. That's why not everybody can be an entrepreneur. Not everybody can be a leader or a coach. They can say they want to, but when they get there, that's really when the hard work happens. Because you're going to have to fight against your pre-programming in your brain. And anytime that it tries to let you off the hook, you have to be willing to stand by and to go, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for trying to get me to be safe. But I'm not in danger right now. I'm going to do this anyway. And that sounds beautiful in theory, but that is hard work. Yeah. That means not just when it's easy. That means like when it is the most difficult, when you feel like everything is coming down on you. When you're like, oh, this is evidence that I need to give up, being able to challenge that, but also have somebody else to get a look at it so that they can look at it and go, okay, did you notice this? Because it's crazy what happens when that shift happens. Right? Yeah. But I mean, that this is just the way it is. Like, not everybody's willing to do that. Yeah. It's okay. That's okay. I'm willing to do that. And the people that we try to coach and train, we want them to understand that's going to be a part of the process. It doesn't make you a good or bad person, but it's one of those things that you have to be willing to go through that pain.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah. And speaking of, you know, doing the work and whether it's a technical challenge or an adaptive challenge, talk about the difference between working on behavior and working on the belief underneath it. Because I think that most people have never had that distinction made for them.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah. Yeah. So let me give an example. And I'll give you an example based off of this new coach that I have as a mentor. So when you get into her ecosystem, she has this mini program that's called Return on Investment is how to get your return on an investment by being in the program. And some of the things that she shares in there, this is probably the reason why I follow her is because she'll say kind of like triggering things that will go against maybe some of your belief system. And you have to be willing to analyze that and take a look at it to see how thinking that could actually benefit you. So when people get into this container for her, they're like, How do I sell more? How do I make more money? How do I learn this thing that I need to learn? Right. It's all the how-tos. Like, I mean, even the name of this title that we have here is going to be a how-to.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Yeah, it's focused on the results.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, because people are like, I want to learn how to do that. I want to learn how to get those kind of results, right? And so they go into the technical stuff. But when you're in that container, when you're in a very powerful, amazing container from a coach, you're going to notice that they tell you less about what to do and more about how to think and how to process. So one of the things that she talks about is she talks about no matter what investment she's ever been a part of, she has gotten a return on investment. No matter if it was the best or it was the worst. No matter if she needed to learn that or she found out later that she didn't need to learn that. And it's not just a return on investment of like, okay, I know what not to do next time. It's not just that. It is from the moment that she said yes to something, she changed. When I sign up for a coaching program, right? And I do it a lot. I mean, for the first seven years, all we did is reinvest in our business. We didn't actually make any money for years. I mean, maybe people don't want to hear that, but that's kind of like what we did because we wanted to build up our value while we were working full time, right? When I go through this process and I sign up for somebody, a coach or a mentor or something like that, even before day one starts, I already have results. And I always wondered like, how do I do that? How do I literally have results before I even started something? And it's because what she was teaching inside of the return on investment was not a technical strategy. It was a way to think about it so that you get the best from that thing. Right. And so when you approach a scenario like that where you're going in to learn something, well, first off, hopefully the person who's teaching it understands that it's really about the beliefs that are driving the behavior. And then they can teach you the behavior. But that part has to be a part of the program or the system. Yeah. Otherwise, it's not going to quote unquote work majority of the time. It's going to be something where you have those 3% completion rates on courses because they only teach you how to do it. They don't teach you who you need to become in order to do it, right? Or how to think about it. So when I think about this, I think about actually seeing what's under the surface in terms of not just what to do, but also how to think, how to change your identity through that process and step in and not only do that thing, but do it from a certain level of action because of the way that you process it. So if you've ever done this where you've signed up for somebody or something, and before you even get on the calls, you're taking more action. Before you get on the calls, you're learning things. Before you get on the calls, the next time you listen to that person's podcast, it just hits you differently. It's because you changed fundamentally how you think in that process, not because you've already got the information yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

And it's not even the action that you took, it's about the belief now that you have.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

100%. You go into a container and you're like, I put my money into this investment because I really do believe in her, the mentor. She's further along than me. And I want to be able to get some of her answers, but really get some of the way that she thinks. Be honest, I joined a program like this because I want to hear how she thinks, not because I want to hear what she does. Because what she does is how she does it. That's not gonna be, that's not gonna work for how I do it. But how she thinks, that's what I want to do. I want to like pay to get into a room to be around people who think at that level, because that will get me to think at that level. And then the doing part is gonna happen automatically, but I'm gonna find my way of doing it. Right. And so that's kind of how I approach it. So many people

How Subconscious Beliefs Keep Patterns Alive

SPEAKER_00 15:31

think they just buy a course and they're instantly going to achieve something from it, right? Or they're gonna get into student mode and they're just once they consume it all, then they're gonna. That is not how I function in those atmospheres, right? Which is why, like, I didn't understand it until I went through this course of hers, where she's like, you'll notice when the people buy your programs and products and they expect your programs and products to change them, versus when somebody buys your programs and products and they're like, I'm going to change myself using these things. It's like, I don't just pay to get the results, I pay so that I can do the work. And when I do the work, I get the results. So that's what I mean is like, I'm sure that people who've are listening to this have been a part of programs so far. Did you approach it with a mindset of I'm gonna get my money's worth and I'm gonna work on myself? And when I come out of here, I'm going to have gotten these results. Because if you did, you may notice that you've transformed massively and massively more than everybody else. But if you didn't, and you're pointing fingers at the program or the product or something else like that, you didn't capture the element of this thing is gonna help you change. It's gonna help the way that you think. You can get a massive return on investment, regardless of what the person teaches and trains you inside. And I hope that you have a good mentor who teaches you and trains you. Like our programs, 100%. We're not gonna teach you just what to do. We're gonna talk to you about the identity behind it. Okay. But like even if you don't, you're still gonna get a lot of it only if you choose to believe that and go in with that mindset.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Yeah, I love that. So you've been this person, right? Like we talk about it a lot. You've done everything right and still hit the same wall. What was the moment that you realized that you'd been working on the wrong level of the problem?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Okay. I told you about a client that we had yesterday that I got on and had a conversation with. And I'm gonna say, like, he helped me to see this. And it's funny because he's a client, but he helped me to see this. So we have been running the high impact mastery academy for a year and a half, right? And then we've been certifying coaches for three years prior to that. And through this process, I was trying to identify like how to communicate what it is that we do inside of the certification. And one of the things I was trying to do is I was trying to boil it down to one problem. This is the problem that we help people solve. And so if you've been following us along, initially it was like how to become a high impact coach, which is like getting people to know the difference between coaching and mentoring when each one is appropriate, but how to get a really deeper understanding of coaching and how to really show up and change people's lives, right? Because there's a million coaches, but there's not a million high impact coaches that separates you from the crowd. And so we put that message out and a couple of people raised their hand and said, Hey, I'd like to go through that. And I noticed, I'm like, huh, maybe the problem is how I communicate this. And maybe I need to communicate it this way instead. And so we started making changes to what we're talking about. We came up with high-stakes conversations, whether you're having a high-stakes conversation in your corporate world, as a coach, as a parent. And that worked a little bit. And it wasn't until I had this conversation with my client. You know, from time to time, we talk about like getting on for free 20-minute calls with us, either me or you. We're gonna help people get to the root of what's going on. And so we had one of these calls. He jumped on, he's like, Hey, I think I want to work with you in a one-on-one capacity, but like, I don't think this high impact mastery academy is for me. But I just want to jump on and just kind of like you ask me some questions and figure out what's going on. And when I had this conversation with him and he started to communicate with me in terms of like where he had been stuck, he was very self-aware. He was like, you know what? I feel like I have these either beliefs or things in my past that are actually preventing me from showing up as the best version of me. He has a successful business, he is like an amazing father. He's like, I have some spaces that I need to get better at, but I know it's not just the technical things because I've been trying all the technical things. And Mark, I know that you are like the subconscious king. And it was funny because nobody had ever told me about they associate me with subconscious, right? And they're like, I feel like I'm getting myself off track. And I don't want to just say, hey, I'm I'm holding myself back. I actually want to find out what it is and I'm willing to have that conversation and figure it out. It's funny because after I had a conversation with him, he was like, okay, so uh I want to sign up and become a one-on-one client, but I also feel like I need to go through the certification. He said, I need to go through the certification because I need to understand how to get to the root of my own behaviors, which is actually the belief. But also, like, I have a program where I actually help people in this other space. And all I do is mentor. I need to help them get to the root of their problems or they're not going to keep taking action. And he's like, I see it happening and I want to be that type of coach that not only can mentor and help people build this business like this, but also be able to help them get to the root of what's actually going on. Now, I'm telling you this full circle because I was getting very frustrated because I'm like, I tried this way of having this conversation. I tried this problem, I tried this problem. And one of the things that I realized is that when we were going through this, we got some advice that

Return On Investment As A Mindset

SPEAKER_00 20:20

instead of us jumping on one-on-one calls with people, so that we could scale and actually talk to more people, that we should put together an application process, that we should guide people that direction, we should put together a video about how the certification works. And we lost the element of what we do best, which is having a conversation to help people get to the root of what's actually going on. And so when I think about like what was actually keeping me stuck, my brain was like trying to convince me that what it was was a messaging problem. I have a messaging problem. I need to put together a way of saying this so that more people are gonna be attracted to this. And what I didn't realize is we don't have a messaging problem as much as we have a problem in terms of the way that I'm approaching and thinking about it, is I've got to put something out to the world, some type of message on social media, and that's gonna attract more of our clients. Versus I eliminate what I do best in the world. And so when people say, okay, so when this was working, what were you doing? And I think back to I was jumping on and having conversations with people. I was telling them, you know, hey, let's jump on a call so I can help you get to the root of what's going on. And maybe I'll talk to you about our programs, maybe not. It depends, right? So if somebody comes to me and they want to learn how to do Instagram training, I'm not gonna like actually do that process, but I will help them see what could potentially keep them stuck. But while I'm going through that, I realized that I had this belief that in order for me to scale and for us to make more money and for us to be able to go through like the health related things that you're going through, I have to work less, which means I have to go down this path of having a funnel that doesn't include me doing the thing that I do best. And I'm like, I got trapped into thinking, and I see a lot of people doing this, it's trying to solve a problem that I don't currently have. That's a problem when you have so many calls that you're having, and instead I tried to solve Solve a problem of let's automate this stuff and think that it's going to get as best results as me, who's been coaching for 13 years, helps people get to the root of it. They're going to think watching a video of me is going to make that happen.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah. But to be fair, like at the moment, we thought that that was the solution because, you know, everything that was happening was like you don't have the capacity to get on 20 calls a week, right? So we kind of deal with the current problems that we feel like we have, right? And we tried to find a solution for it. But yeah, in retrospect, it was like, yeah, you took away that element that really got people to take action.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah. Yeah. So so I want to bring up something very important that you just said because that is true. What happens is once we make a decision, our brain will look for all the evidence that that was the right decision. Yeah. But it does that after we've made the decision. Yeah. We need to do that before we make the decision, where we're like, wait, hold on a second here. Let's think about this for a second. We are changing the way that we're approaching things. What are the potential positives? But also what are the potential pitfalls here that we want to put in place? We didn't do that, right? You generally will make a decision and then you'll be like, oh yeah, that was a good decision because of this, this, this, and this. And you have all of that supporting evidence. And that's just another way of getting you to believe the thing that's actually keeping you stuck. And that's what I mean is like you don't realize it, but it literally will prevent you from taking the actions you want to take because it's trying to convince you to play small. And it as you become a better coach, it actually doesn't get any easier. Your brain is like trying to get all the supporting evidence. Where it's like, well, Theresa's going through this and like you don't have time for this, but and also the energy that you have and also all these other things, right? And it's like all of these are going to be supporting evidence for you to play safe. That's why you need somebody else to have this conversation with. Because I would have never known if like somebody else didn't have this conversation with me and be able to point it out and say, hey, did you consider this? Right. Because I gotta say, when we're going down this path, we were getting a lot of advice from people. You remember? Yeah. Yeah. Well, because we were asking for it. We were asking for it and we were getting their advice. But guess what happens when you get their advice? You also get the way that they believe. You also get some of the things that are running under their show, which is not the saying that's gonna be helpful for you sometimes, right? And so you don't realize that when you're asking for advice, they have a belief system. You're actually getting new beliefs are being planted in you.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

But then we also recognize that.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Recognize that, but most people don't. They're like, hey, um, I want to give out advice to everybody, or or I want to get advice, right? You don't realize that they have a different belief system than you. Some of those beliefs are gonna help you, some of them won't help you. Some of them will actually keep you trapped. We're in a different like ecosystem. So, us, in terms of selling certifications and selling one-on-one coaching, is different than people who are selling marketing in a big group program, or somebody who's selling something else entirely different. There's different nuances for everything that you're selling. And so different beliefs have to be formed based off of that. And if you don't understand this is going on underneath the surface, that is how you get stuck. Right. And your brain convinces you, yep, you're not able to move forward. Even if you're trying all the things in the world, it's gonna, it's gonna sell you on the idea that you're stuck and you're gonna be there.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Absolutely. So for the person listening who recognizes this, you know, everything that we've talked about, you know, who's tired of doing the work and still ending up kind of like in the same place, what's the most honest thing that you can say to them right now?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I want them to like reflect on the question. I think I'm gonna give them a question today. And that question is what if I am trying to solve the wrong problem? What could the problem be instead? So one of the things is like when you are trying to solve the wrong problem and you're trying things and nothing's working, number one, nothing is ever gonna work. But number two is stop trying to solve that problem that way and just reflect on it and ask yourself, could this be another problem? Could there be something else under the surface? I would highly encourage you to get somebody who's maybe been through that problem and can help guide you through it. That's the fastest way. You don't have to do that. You can try to do it yourself if you want. You can try to use AI. Sometimes it will bring up some different things, but generally AI will help you with technical things, not adaptive ones, because it doesn't know your belief system. It doesn't know what's going on, right? And it can ask you some questions sometimes, but sometimes it doesn't know because it's not a human, right? It doesn't feel. But really asking yourself, what if this was a different problem that I'm trying to solve? What could it be? And not because I want you to shame or guilt or anything. We got a lot of people through this. And there's one of two responses that I've seen from people who we help get to the root of the problem. Number one is either they use shame or blame. Shame means they're blaming themselves. Blame means they're pointing to somebody else, something else. Those are not spaces that you want to stay in. And it may come up instantly, but if you stay in those spaces, you won't learn the lesson. You won't be able to take ownership. But the second way is I see a weight being lifted off of people. What would it feel like if you could actually finally know what was holding you back? Just think about that for a second. If you really knew what was holding you back, it gives you now the power to change it. I would highly suggest you put together a plan to do that because it doesn't happen automatically. But think about how you

The Real Breakthrough In Mark’s Business

SPEAKER_00 27:08

would feel if you realized, I've been trying to solve this problem. I don't even have that problem. This is the problem that I actually have. That's the power that we give clients. That's the power that our coaches give us, is being able to see what the actual root of the problem is. So that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

In terms of the quiz, I know I was gonna say this. So we have built a quiz to help people start to get to the root of what's going on. So many people always ask us, like, hey, can you share a checklist or a cheat sheet on the questions that we should ask our clients to help them get to the root? And there are some questions that's on that sheet. All right. And if you want to fill it out yourself, go for it. You'll get some feedback from me or Teresa, and we'll even offer you an opportunity to jump on a 20-minute call if it feels like it's a good fit, or you can just use it for yourself. But the important things aren't the initial questions as much as they are the questions that you ask after those. Meaning the first question will open it up. You will not still know exactly everything that's going on, which is why we offer our 20-minute call until you actually ask deeper questions around that area. So you'll see some of the different ideas based off of the modernleadership.us forward slash quiz, but just know that it's not as important as the first question as like all the questions that come after that.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah. But it's like a starting point.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

100%. 100%. All right. And by the way, just a side note, the reason why we have stopped doing primary YouTube videos and gotten into podcast is for this exact reason that we just shared earlier, is getting us to just have conversations versus trying to script things or trying to say things very succinctly or like, okay, we've got three minutes to do this. Let's get the hook and all this. Like podcasting, we don't need that. We have just like a couple notes and some questions that's written down as just the conversation because this is the way that we're able to communicate in this way and get people to really experience us to see if we're their people and to see if we can help them or not. So that's why we've really leaned into the podcast and why we're doing this is because we know we can help so many more people in this respect. So, all right, thank you for joining me again. I always miss you when you're not here. Thank you for having me. Oh, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me right now? All right, guys, I appreciate you. Thank you guys for leaning in. Thank you for being willing to have these difficult conversations because this is where the change really happens. If you guys need anything, don't hesitate to reach out, shoot us a message. But have a great week with your family, and we'll see you real soon.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Bye, everybody.