The Conversation You Keep Avoiding

Avoidance And The Hard Talk

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So everyone has one. And that's the conversation they rehearse, but never actually have. And it's not that you don't know what to say. It's that once you actually say it, things could potentially change. That's why today we're talking about what avoidance actually costs and what it looks like to step into the hard conversation with a plan instead of a prayer. So welcome to Modern Leadership Coaching. I'm Mark.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

And I'm Teresa.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

And today we're talking about the conversations you keep avoiding, why you avoid them, what they're actually costing you, and how to walk into them with clarity instead of anxiety. So you ready to do that?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yep, let's go. So I have a question for you. It's basically the reason we're doing this podcast. And it's what's the real reason people avoid hard conversations?

Safety Stories And Broken Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 0:45

I mean, this is really what we do inside of the High Impact Mastery Academy is we help teach people how to have difficult conversations that can transform people, right? Um, I was actually just talking about this on a uh leadership call with the Dead Edge. And that is like when you have the hard, difficult conversations, those are the greatest opportunities for you to grow, for you to learn, for you to develop, and for you to create more connection than you've ever felt before. However, most of the time, our brain is focused on what's broken, wrong, or missing. Like, what's gonna happen if I say this? Is it gonna create conflict? Are they gonna yell at me? What is the end result gonna be? Are they gonna fire me if they're actually a client? Or are they just gonna create a scene here? And we're so focused on those things that we don't have those conversations. And whatever the story is we're telling ourselves or whatever the perspective is, it's meant to keep us safe. It's like don't talk about that. But here's one thing that I want to make sure that people really think about when it comes to these conversations is when there's a conversation you need to have, but you don't have it, sometimes what we accidentally do is we don't set up boundaries with people. We actually teach them how not to treat us, right? We teach them how to treat us, but we teach them in a way that's like we don't want to be treated that way. And it's because we're avoiding having those conversations. And so every time that that thing happens and we don't have that conversation, we plant a seed that it's okay for them to continue acting this way or continuing to showing up this way, or our brain to continue to think this way, because this also works with us too, because there's probably difficult conversation you to have with yourself, right? But you're unwilling to have it. All of these different things are ultimately trying to keep you safe and not having that conversation. But the end results is you never actually get to grow. You never get to have that conversation. And then now it's starting to be used against you. So whatever that story is, like obviously we jump in and we have some conversation and we figure out what that story is, it's a little different for everybody, but ultimately it's all because it wants to keep you safe.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah. And I'm I'm curious to know what you think about this. Because if you're rehearsing, let's say, a conversation and it's happening over and over again when you're not actually having the conversation with someone that you need to, and that creates a perspective in your mind. So in reality, I feel like sometimes it's worse because you have this perspective of something that hasn't even happened.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

And now that is driving your behavior. Yeah. So what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I I think that is the real main reason why people are disconnected as they want to be. Uh, because they have whether it's a story or perspective, they think the other person is making it mean. And a lot of times we're just guessing. And we are coming into a situation, a conversation, guessing what the other person is thinking, feeling, why they're taking action. And in reality, we're just not asking them. That's where the conversation happens. We ask them, we get curious. We don't ask in a negative way or like an aggressive way. A lot of people might have like a leader or somebody who coaches in this environment where they kind of like explode or they lead in a way where it's not asking you a question, but asking you a question in a way that's kind of like gut punching you, right? And there's a difference between that and actually just being curious, the direction the other person's coming from, what they potentially could be going through. But then there's the asking. Just ask them, have that conversation. You will be amazed how many times what you thought was true was totally false. They had no inclination of that, but you kind of like were ruminating on it and actually manifesting and creating more of that disconnection because you never asked.

Right Time Versus Avoiding

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Right. Yeah. So, what's the difference between avoiding a conversation and just waiting for the right time?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Ooh. Okay. So the right time is an important piece. I coach a lot of people in the relationship space. So when somebody says that thing or they get upset or they're angry or they're frustrated, that is not the time to necessarily have a really deep conversation into why they're acting that way.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Because it's tied to their emotions.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Correct. We teach a process to really empathize with somebody in that moment. When there's a very challenging situation, you got to approach it as a way so that people can feel seen and heard. That is not a coaching conversation, by the way. That is more of like having a conversation with somebody, getting them to see that you may not understand where they're coming from, but you want them to verbalize out loud so that they can feel like they're not going through this by themselves. But that is not the time to talk to them about things that you've been meaning to talk to them forever, right? You know, since you're angry, let's talk about this thing, right? It is not the thing. It's kind of funny, but at the same time, I see it happening all the time. It's like, I'm gonna bring up while we're in the middle of this fight something else that this person has been doing that has been pissing me off, right? And you're like, that is the worst possible timing because they're already upset and they don't know how to do what we do, which is manage your mind and disassociate from the specific incident, the specific thing, realizing that somebody can't make you feel a certain way. And because they don't know how to do that, they're just gonna keep going with their anger or frustration or resentment. And then they're just gonna keep a laundry list, right? And what what this communicates so many times is I've been keeping a secret list of all the things that you suck at, and I'm gonna bring them up whenever you have a. And now it's like it just creates disconnection in that moment, right? So, yes, there is a time to say, hey, this is the right time. But if you're like just waiting for the right time, you're like, it'll just happen. Like, no, like how about like, hey, Tuesday, I really like to just get together and have a conversation about X, Y, and Z, right? I don't like the way that I've been showing up and I want to really find out like how I can help you even better. And and now it's like set. It's something that you're specifically making time for, but it's not a, hey, if it happens, it happens. That is not how we lead intentional lives, right? We have to be very specific about it.

Plan The Conversation With Ownership

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah. And that that was gonna be my next question is like, how do you enter a conversation with a plan versus with just hoping that it goes well?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah. Obviously, this is something we teach a lot more in depth in the High Impact Mastery Academy. There's something that will drive somebody else's behavior. It's their belief system, it's the thoughts that they think, the perspectives, the stories they tell themselves. And so when you go into a hard conversation, one of the things that I always know diffuses, not only diffuses the situation, but gets you to see the perspective of where they're coming from is to get curious about what is driving their behavior. Obviously, we have a list of questions that we guide coaches through, and it's not just like a checklist, it's something that you have to be able to adapt to, which is why our program seven months. But it's like being able to see what's actually running, what's behind the scenes, will help empower you to figure out how best to approach this, right? If we approach things based off of our own lens and where we are right now, we fail to connect with people and meet them where they're at. This is something that I see a lot, not only when it comes to like coaching and leading, but even like as parents, is we're meeting people where we're at with our level of growth. Even coaches, like coaches who are out there, the ones who are like making a real huge impact. They have a lot of clients, they're helping people, versus people who go out there and they're trying to attract people who are at their same level because they're talking the same way. It's like you have to really meet the person where they're at. And if you don't know where they're at, you haven't been able to find out what's actually driving their behavior. It's very hard for you to communicate that way. Now, there is ways that I teach and I go through a process to be able to find out how do we communicate in a way that makes me take ownership of my part of the equation. Best way to not go into a conversation is going, hey, you suck. Here's all the reasons why you messed it up. It's to take ownership. Hey, this is my part in it. My part is this. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get better and I'm gonna focus on these things so that this doesn't happen. Because if you had had better instruction, you may have done those at that activity the way that you should have. But this is a lack of clarity on my part. And what's funny is when you do that, oftentimes the other person is like, no, no, no, this is my part. This is my part to own, right? And you don't do that on purpose, but how you communicate when it comes to like taking ownership, very important. But the second thing is just be very clear. They say being clear is kind. Don't beat around the bush. Here's the situation. This is where I don't think I showed up as my best version of me. And I would love to hear from you like, what do you think I could do differently next time? And it's one of those things where, yeah, you have to bridge it to the person you're talking to and meet them where they're at, but there's always a way to communicate in a more effective way than maybe some of the ways that I used to in the past, which is pointing out everybody else's reasons why they didn't succeed, pointing to the outside reality, all the things that we teach inside of HEMA, right? Being able to thinking that it was something that was outside of you. No, taking ownership of your part is like the most important part in those equations.

How Avoidance Spreads Everywhere

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Right. So how does avoiding like these conversations have like maybe a ripple effect in your relationships and at home?

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, yeah. I really love this question because I don't think people realize what's going on. Let's say you have a relationship or you have something that you're trying to figure out, right? Something that you're putting time and energy into, but you just haven't figured out a way of bringing it up, having that conversation. That is literally ruminating in your subconscious mind and spending your valuable time and energy, even when you're not focused on it, because it's trying to work out like the plan. It's trying to figure out how do we fix this? How do we solve this? And when you run from one thing to the next to the next, maybe you have something in business that's going on, maybe you have an employee you need to talk to, maybe you have somebody you lead, maybe you have your kid as going through this thing at school, maybe your wife is doing whatever, like all of these things add up. And every time we postpone it, it's now additional things that are added into our brain. What we tend to think is it's our conscious mind that is actually using the most amount of energy. That is not true. It is our subconscious mind. All the things that are running, all the programs that are running. You know, if I look at your phone, you've got like 72 different programs that are running. Calling me out. I'm just saying. And it's like we're like, why is my phone going so slow? It's because you haven't like swiped up and swiped all those apps out, right? And that's the same way that I think about this. It's like you have a million tabs open in your brain right now, and you're wondering why you're overwhelmed in just this one area. And it's not because it's just that one area, it's all of the other conversations and things that you're working through that your brain is trying to solve for, even unconsciously, that like you're bringing into that next conversation and it's contagious. It starts to take over all of these things, and then you don't feel confident in having conversations at all. But the beautiful thing is the opposite happens too. When you start to have that one conversation that you've been meaning to have, and you do it in a way it actually makes you feel more connected to that other person. When you do it in a way that like actually helps you see that this is a win-win potential scenario, you now start looking for, oh, this worked here. How could this work over here? How can this work over here? And then before you know it, you're starting to take these actions, modeling the behavior. And as you're going, like, as one of the greatest gifts you can give to the people that you lead, is you doing the things, you having the difficult conversations, you working through that process because now people are attracted to that. They're like, wow, how are you able to do all that despite X, Y, and Z? Right. We have a client, Cynthia. And when she's been able to master this, she now does this at work. And people are like, How do you respond the way that you do? Like, I would have lost my stuff here. And it's because she's modeling that behavior and doing the things that she's asking of others in front of everybody that gets them to go, that's what I want. That's what I want some help with, right? And that's why when you think about this stuff like in modeling behavior, it really attracts people who are gonna want your help because they're like, I want to be able to react the way that you did or have a conversation the way you did. Cool, calm, and collected, lowest heartbeat in the room. That's really, really powerful when you not only learn how to do that, but you start implementing it into your life.

A Resource And A Weekly Move

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, it's a huge skill. So what would you say to someone who knows they need to have a conversation this week, but keeps finding reasons not to do it?

The Freeway Story On Perspective

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Okay, two things. First off, I'm gonna give a resource. So I'm not sure if people know, but we created a resource around how to have difficult conversations. It talks a little bit about the things that we teach in the High Impact Mastery Academy to really get to what's actually driving the person's behavior. It gives you a different perspective in terms of how to step into these conversations. So if you go to modernleadership.us forward slash mastery, there's a sign-up page there. You sign up, I will email you the link to the video. It's pretty short. I think it's like seven, eight minutes, but it's gonna give you a little bit of insights into what you can take into that scenario. And of course, we have the High Impact Mastery Academy starting on May 2nd. That is something where we take a deep dive into it because there's a difference between learning it and actually implementing it and practicing it and taking action on it and getting feedback. And that's really what we do over those seven months so that people can navigate conversations. Yes, as a coach, but also as a leader, also as a parent, and also as a spouse, getting really good with having conversations and being able to manage your mind. So when it comes to like what you can do from a conversation this week, is make sure that the conversation that you have is all about understanding why or what is driving their behavior. So it's not about you and how angry you are or how they said this thing or how they're not doing this thing. It is not about you and our conversation, thinking about this is about the other person, right? This is about maybe understanding their perspective, seeing it from their light. Please hear this. It does not mean that they are right. Nobody's beliefs are right or wrong. It's just what drives their behavior and gets them to show up. And I've seen beliefs that are really healthy in some people be destructive in the other. So you got to find the beliefs and the stories and the thoughts that really work best for you. But just because you're getting curious and you're wanting to see it from their perspective doesn't mean that their perspective is right. It just means you now have information, you have awareness that you can deal with, that you can help the other person with that you've never had before. And if you don't have that before, you never really know. Can I share a story real quick? Just to give you an idea. So I remember when I was learning about this whole idea of awareness, they were talking about somebody driving down the freeway. And this makes sense because we're in Los Angeles. So the freeways are crazy, right? And you're just driving, right? You're mining your old business, you're going to work, and then you see this person kind of like cutting people off, cutting in between cars. And you're like, seriously, you need to get to something so important right now, like you're gonna actually hurt people. And they cut off in front of you and they pull off to the side of the off ramp, and then they're like out of your sight, right? I want you to think about like what would that experience be like for you? Some people would be like, I'm just pissed off that this person did this, right? And some people would take that into their whole rest of their day. But I want you to pause for a second. I want you to think about this. What if that person was rushing to the hospital because their son had gotten shot and was probably gonna die and they wanted to see them for their last time? Does that change your perspective? You have no idea which one it is, but you get to in your brain decide are you gonna focus your attention on all what's broken, wrong, or missing and how this person's an a-hole? Or are you gonna give the person a benefit of the doubt and going, okay, it may or may not be true, but I know that me thinking that this person is just an a-hole is not gonna hurt this person. They're not thinking about me. It's only going to hurt me. But the opposite is true too. If I think about like, maybe this person is going to rush to the hospital, their wife is giving birth in the backseat of their car, it's also not gonna help or hurt them, but it is gonna help me because it's gonna retrain my brain to get to see, like, I don't really know what's going on. Do I want to assume the worst and make me feel terrible about it? Or do I want to assume the best and me feel good about it? Knowing that the other person, there's not gonna be any outcome change for them. Right. Right? Like thinking they're a bad person doesn't make them feel worse. They don't even know this is happening in your brain. But the more time and energy that we spend there, the more that we are controlled by our emotions rather than choosing our own thoughts on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

That's really like where the perspective is. And when you can see it from that perspective, like maybe the conversation that you're having with your spouse or your kids, maybe they do have a good perspective, but you have no idea it actually exists.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah. It's crazy how we can do that. And uh, it's funny that you brought that up because you know how I am with people.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

No, I want you to talk to the audience and tell them about how you are with cars.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Well, okay. So if anybody knows me, knows that I'm quiet, reserved, and you probably think I don't have public in public. You probably don't think I have an attitude or anything. But when it comes to me driving, Mark, if he's in the passenger seat, then he gets an earful for somebody cutting me off or doing anything. But yeah, like I have actually taken that, what you just said, and I've implemented that, and it's actually been much better because I don't know what people are going through. I don't know what's happening, and it it's none of my business. So it's like, why would I focus on that when I could just be living my life and just thinking something on purpose that's not gonna be something that's gonna derail my day.

Underperformance Scenario And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah. I mean, it it all goes back to the safety thing. We all do things to stay safe. People call it comfort and uncomfortableness, but really ultimately it's safety. It's only minimizes us, right? So I actually have a question that I want to ask the audience. We're gonna end this episode with this one, okay? So here's what I want you guys to do this week. I want to give you a scenario. I want you to sit with this, all right? This is not me reading your diary. Maybe this is happening, maybe it's not, but I want you to really sit with this, all right? I want you to think that you're leading a team, and there's one person on that team that is consistently underperforming. Everyone can see it, but no one says anything. Now, you may have thought about this conversation like a dozen times, but you keep telling yourself that it's not the right moment. And once that moment happens, you know that you're gonna do it. But I'm curious, what would you do in that scenario? What would you do? So I want you to think about that because we're actually gonna share our take on this next episode and what we would do in that very exact situation to not only make it so that we can have a deeper conversation with them, get them to show up on another level, but really solidify the culture that everybody else is watching. Because if you see this, everybody else does. We're gonna show you how to actually make this be your greatest moment as a leader. Think on that. Let us know. Come to our social media, respond to one of our emails, all those good things. And then, of course, have an incredible week. Alright, everybody. Thank you for staying.